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Search Results 0 to 49 of about 259 (some duplicates have been removed)
. >> president barack obama and governor mitt romney preparing to face off in their first presidential debate. >> and here in denver, the candidates know what happens on this debate stage certainly could help sway the election. >> a president struggling with a slow economy, hoping to boost confidence in his leadership. >> i'm not fighting to create democratic and republican jobs, i'm fighting to create american jobs. >> a challenger fighting in the poll es trying to connect with average americans. after months of attacks on the campaign trial, it's time for these candidates to confront each other face to face. >> we will win this election, we will finish what we started! >> i will do better than this president has done for the american people! >> in colorado tonight, barack obama and mitt romney in their first presidential debate. >> these debates are an opportunity for each of us to describe the pathway forward. >> what i'm most concerned about is having a serious discussion about what we need to do to keep the country growing. >> two men with different vision on issues voters care about mos
consensus among viewers and pundits that mitt romney shined in denver's debate season opener and the president did not. the new yorker magazine summed it up with a cover cartoon of romney debating an empty chair. the captain "mitt stands alone." campaigns are only as good as their last news cycle, so on to danville, kentucky, and thursday night's battle of the number twos. joining me now are philadelphia mayor michael nutter, a long-time friend of joe biden, and republican party chairman -- a confidant of paul ryan. mayor nutter, stand by with me, and i want to get to the party chairman, and we'll be back with you. mr. chairman, thank you for joining us. i want to talk about the great burden of great expectations. there was a cnn poll, and who is going to win the vice presidential debate? the answer was biden, 35%, ryan, 55%. many many ways this mirrors what happened to the presidential debate? everyone thought president obama would win, so there's great expectations here for ryan. how much of a microscope do you think there will be on him? >> i'm not so sure about that. i me
. >> that's the end of the first presidential debate between governor romney of massachusetts and president obama. you see both men being greeted by their wives on stage. even this portion of the debate is negotiated ahead of time by the campaigns in terms of which members of their family will be joining them on stage. this is, these these are negotiated down to this level of detail. in terms of how the overall debate unfolded, i personally do not know who won this debate. i do feel that we saw this debate format die a very painful death on camera tonight. the contrast between the candidates was stylistic as much as substantive. president obama i think calm and basically explanatory tonight. governor romney, more hyper, and i don't mean that in a negative way, just sort of more amped, more assertive. and that manifests in a way that the debate format was just dismantled. the format and i think the moderator, with all due respect to mr. lehrer dismantled. this is one of those debates, you could predict the score more by time of possession in terms of who was speaking more. then you could by
romney took control of the debate. he was dynamic, informed and very much on his game. and the president was not. he looked tired, he was not on top of the issues. even before the debate was over, the verdict came pouring in. romney won. and this morning, virtually every headline, every pundit left and right gives a strong edge to the governor. but the new york times just couldn't bring itself to admit their guy had a bad day. they hedged. obama and romney spar over fixing the economy, they said. well, dare i call this a romney rally? i will tell you that stocks will open up today. the day after the romney win. "varney & company" is about to begin. you'd be targeting stocks to trade. well, that's what trade architect's heat maps do. they make you a trading assassin. trade architect. td ameritrade's empowering web-based trading platform. trade commission-free for 60 days, and we'll throw in up to $600 when you open an account. >> october 4th, a lot happened during last night's debate. we have 90 minutes worth of back and forth to choose from. we will pick only the best moments for you. m
. >> gearing up, president obama and mitt romney prepare for their first debate. a show down in denver this wednesday. >>> and on the record, are arnold schwarzenegger opens up on "60 minutes" about the affair that produce ad son and ended his marriage. >> it was the stupidest thing i've done in the whole relationship. >> this is the "cbs morning news" for monday, october 1, 2012. >>> good morning. good to be with you. i'm terrell brown. this morning in afghanistan the taliban is claiming responsibility for a suicide attack that killed at least 14 people, including three nato service members. a suicide bomber riding a motorcycle rammed into a patrol. americans have a large presence there. nato is trying to sort out a weekend attack in afghanistan that left two americans dead. the casualties push the number of u.s. personnel killed in afghanistan to 2,000. the circumstances of saturday's violence remains unclear but a fire fight broke out at a checkpoint in eastern afghanistan. what nato hasn't determined so far was the gun battle a result of an insider attack or a deadly misunderstandi
>>> facing off. barack obama and mitt romney meet for the first debate and their best opportunity to reach out voters. millions of americans gathered around their tv's or in front of their computers to watch two men argue with each other. barack obama and mitt romney debated health care, the role of government, and governing one month before the presidential election. but they spent most of their time arguing over the economy. the 90 minute debate in denver, colorado, one of the few battleground states that could decide the election. candidates concentrated on how to revive the economy. >> the only way to meet governor romney's pledge of not reducing the deficit, or not adding to the deficit, is by burdening middle-class families, now that's -- not my analysis. >> the president has a view very similar to the view he had when he ran four years ago, a bigger government, spending more, taxing more, regulating more, if you will, trickle down government would work. that's not the right answer for america. >> romney kept attacking o mode instructions. obama some times had trouble gettin
national correspondent john roberts is tonight. >> ahead of the debate. romney is shifting the focus under a withering critique from fellow republicans he is making the campaign less referendum on the president, more a choice between who has the best policies, to lead the nation in the future. >> i represent a different course. i make sure young people have great jobs tomorrow and bright and prosperous future. that is the difference between us. >> wednesday's debate will focus on domestic policy. romney continues to hamer the president for what he calls a failed foreign policy? an op-ed in today's op-ed journal, romney declared the president is weakening the america's position in the world writing, "by failing to maintain the element of our influence and by stepping away from the allies, president obama has heightened the prospect of conflict and instability. he does not understand in american policy that lax resolve can provoke aggressio aggression. and carriage disorder." after a weekend of debate prep in boston, romney left for denver an wednesday's big event. while the campaign played
presidential debate but next week, president obama and romney meets in face-off on long iland. romney is planning another major speech, this time on the economy. bret? >> bret: carl cameron traveling with governor romney. thank you. there is new information tonight about how bad the security conditions were in libya prior to the deadly attack on the mission. also, there are new charges that the obama administration did not answer security calls increase security for that mission. from americans on the ground in libya. james rose listen have that story tonight in just a few moments. right now, president obama is in search of consolation and cash in california. chief white house correspondent ed henry is traveling with the president. >> reporter: raising ever more campaign cash in hollywood at a concert with stars like katy perry and jon bonn jovi he poked fun at his debate debacle in denver. >> everybody here is a professional and great friends and they perform flawlessly night after night. i can't always say the same. >> the sudden plunge in the president poll numbers, though, is no l
, the first gallup daily tracking poll since that debate shows romney fought his way back to tie nationally knotted up at 47%. bounce for romney since before the debate when he was trailing in the same poll by 5 points. groping for answers about why the president stumbled almost a full week later his top advisors are still pushing the narrative that romney lied his way to victory. >> look, george, governor romney had a masterful, theatrical performance this past week. the underpinning and foundation of the performance were fundamentally dishonest. >> big bird meets the big lies. now governor romney will be challenged for the remain 30 days to explain how it is he pays for $5 trillion in cut and tax cut for millionaire and billionaires. >> the obama camp has been using a study by princeton economist harvey rosen to back up that romney's plan is paid for by tax cut on middle class but there was pushback from rosen saying he was misrepresented, saying increase in the tax burden on lower and middle income individuals is not required in order to make the overall plan revenue neutral. >> he would
are inexperienced in a one-on-one debate format. few details on the format. the president and romney will be at podiums, standing, not sitting, and there will be no basic time limits on their answers. it's not 90 seconds, buzzer, things like that. it's up to the discretion of the moderator, jim leierer. that's going to be up to him. but there's supposed to be a lot of leeway here over how long the conversations go. the debate is on domestic policy. 90 minutes is supposed to be devoted to the economy specifically with governing and health care. but we'll see if the general nature of those areas allows libya to come up, which we know the romney folks want to do. debates are as much about style as substance and this is a reality show where obama and romney will meet in the first time in nearly five years before their biggest audience of the campaign. the first 2008 presidential debate between the president and john mccain got seven times the audience of the highest rated 2012 republican primary debate. think about that. seven times. past debates show romney and obama have to worry about
situation room." >>> happening now, just two days before the first obama/romney debate and our new cnn national poll shows the president's lost, lost his post-convention bounce. but there's a different story in the battleground states. >>> mitt romney could make a huge impact on the supreme court. how he could change the direction of the court for decades. >>> they make $10 a day to put their lives on the line. but they could lose their job ifs they don't lose some weight. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >>> we're now just 36 days from the presidential election and nationally our brand-new cnn/orc poll of likely voters shows the race between president obama and governor romney remaining up for grabs. the president leads 50% to 47%. but his three-point margin is within the poll's sampling error. our chief national correspondent john king is in denver getting ready for the debate over there. that's the site of the debate. john, take us into these numbers. what are you seeing? >> reporter: well, wolf, i can tell you this, talking to senior officials in the romney campaig
who actually watched the debate, finds that 67% think mitt romney was the clear winner while only 25% think president obama won. let's get some more now from our chief political analyst gloria borger. gloria, how damaging was this debate to president obama last night? >> i think we have to let the polls come in. and we'll let the voters decide. but i think you saw from the way the president was behaving on the stump this morning that even he knows that this was a pretty damaging debate for him. look, mitt romney showed up as somebody who was reasonable, as somebody who criticized the president while being respectful of the president. and as somebody those independent voters, those undecided voters, those persuadable voters could take a look at and say, you know, i could see him as a plausible president. just by being there mitt romney was elevated to the level of the president. and he effectively i would have to say took charge of the debate. and the president just sort of did not really push him or force him or challenge him the way we just saw on the stump right now. >> i was prett
. >> later in the show you are going to hear from romney's former debate coach who is with him during the primary. oo tonight's debate is exactly what we would like to hear from you on today. what would you like to hear from the candidates tonight? send your comments over to us. tweet them to us at foxfriendsfirst@foxnews.com. >> those are the top stories making news at this hour. we know the identity of the border patrol agent shot dead trying to protect our border. nicholas ivy was 30 years old from utah. he leaves behind a wife and two children. avery and another agent were shot. that is an area known for drug smuggling. >> the agent died in the line of duty protecting our nation against those who threaten our way of life. his death strengthens our resolve to bring those responsible to justice. >> the guns linked the fast and furious operation were found where he was murdered. he was the last border patrol agent who was shot dead before ivy. a judge blocked pennsylvania effort to fight voter fraud. all voters show photo id. critics many democrats claim it would disenfranchise line
before the second presidential debate. they will be hitting it hard in the debate. romney and ryan in friendly territory here in fishersville. the rally won't be until later on today because they want all those sound bites from last night's debate to marinate before romney and ryan take it stage here today. bill: john roberts in the western part of virginia. martha: while all this marinates. president obama has been hit with some criticism from some republicans for bringing former president bill clinton into the mix. >> we tried both approaches. the approach governor romney is talking about is the same sales pitch that was made in 2001 and 2003. and we ended up with the slowest job growth in 50 years, we ended up moving from surplus to deficits, and it all culminated in the financial crisis since the great depression. bill clinton tried the approach i'm talking about. we created 23 million you are in jobs. we went from deficit to surplus, and businesses did very well. martha: don't forget that bill clinton did very well for this president at his convention. but there is karl rove's
presidential debate. but what does mitt romney need to do to convince americans he is the man for the job? >> there has to be a compelling reason for change. governor romney has the burden of proof. >> that was mitt prom knromney'r debate coach. coming up more on what he thinks is key for romney to win the debate. >> big weather hiding in a crtrh can? we will tell you why one school wants to monitor what your kids throw away. big brother hiding in your trash can not little brother. >> o.j. simpson was acquitted of the murders of nicole brown simpson and ronald goldman. >> good morning to you. welcome to "fox & friends first". i am heather nauert. >> i am ainsley earhardt. it is 5:307b9 east coast. the excitement is building in denver few hours away from the first presidential debate. it is coming up later tonight. live in washington with the latest for us. >>> no doubt pretty intense operations for both of these guys as they get ready for the big contest. mitt romney in colorado we saw him briefly with senator rob portman his sparring partner for a quick break. president obama is still in
. governor romney fueled by his debate performance in florida all weekend long drawing his biggest crowds yet and president obama with that new unemployment number back to where it was when he took office teaming up with bill clinton in california, and clinton will be on the campaign trail all week, and this as a new gallup poll showing a tighter race after the debate. the president now up by just three points after being up by six points at his peak. abc's david kerley is on the campaign trail tonight in florida. >> reporter: 9,000 flag-waving romney supporters jammed the town square, 6,000 last night, all ready to turn the president out of office. >> you all have the chance to hear his answers or his not answers -- nonanswers. now, of course, days later we're hearing his excuses, and next january we'll be watching him leave the white house for the last time. >> reporter: team romney is feeling the momentum from his debate performance, and the obama campaign is admitting even the president realizes he didn't perform at his peak. >> i think you can assume that he's reviewed the tape, and it w
. for that reason and that reason alone, i think this debate is very important for mitt romney. >> can i pick -- >> and i think the debates -- i personally think debates are so great for candidates because they can talk without the filter of all of us saying what this means or what that means. and mitt romney, you know, you look at mitt romney, he's been portrayed as this 47% guy, and a lot of faux pases that he's made. this is his chance to talk to the american people straight. i remember 1980 -- and i bring this up to you, sam, because you weren't even born in 1980. >> i was not, yeah. >> but ronald reagan, people forget, before the debate, ronald reagan was painted as this looney, right-wing fanatic that would start world war iii, dr. strangelove, and it was the debate that stuck a needle in that balloon. >> i remember it well. >> not even born yet. i mean, this is romney's chance. >> sure. >> to connect with the american people. >> to pick up on mike's point, fascinating number from the poll is this. 51% of people who said they had heard or read something about romney in the last couple w
very busy doing just that while her husband, mitt romney, has been doing debate preparations just a short distance away in denver. it will be fascinating, wolf, to watch the body language between mitt romney and president obama tomorrow night when they meet face-to-face as the obama campaign revealed to cnn, the two men have only met a few times in the past. flash back to 2008 and there they are. then-senator barack obama and mitt romney sharing a few moments on stage after back-to-back democratic and republican presidential debates in new hampshire. they also ran into each other at a labor day parade in 2007. a campaign source cataloging the meetings tells cnn these are just two of the three times the candidates have ever seen each other in person. flash forward to 2012 one day before the debate. romney briefly stopped for lunch grabbing bued burritos at chipo >> people want to know who's going to win. who's going to score the punches? >> reporter: at a pre-debate rally in denver, romney seemed to down play reports that his campaign has prepped him with zingers to go after the pr
debate will actually mean for the race. mitt romney getting positive reviews and will that translate into votes? some say president obama had an off night. tom fitzgerald is tracking all of the reaction. fitz, the president himself came out swinging today? >> reporter: he did, will. the president took on the role of the spin master in chief. speaking in colorado, he mocked mitt romney's policies, challenged his facts and pointed out differences between what mitt romney said last night and during the campaign. the problem, though, is that a much smaller group of people saw the president's appearance today than the 50 million who watched last night as mitt romney gave the political performance of his life. >> reporter: fresh off of what many supporters viewed as a disappointing debate, president obama is trying to hit reset. >> when i got on to the stage, i met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be mitt romney. >> reporter: speaking in denver, the president argued mitt romney's debate performance was big on style but short on facts. >> the real mitt romney has been running around
did in the debate. romney won with the sound off. dude, he's yelling at you, look up! look up! what are you looking at, writing that's so important -- oh, that's nice. i didn't realize. that is impressive work. >> good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. >> romney will come across as empathetic. but here's what mitt's been promising for the last two years. tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. how do you make that seem warm and fuzzy? well you just need to shake it up as hard as mitt did last night. so, let's give it a shot. okay. here we go. >> a little magic there. good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in washington today. the white house got some welcome news. a september jobs report with the unemployment number now down to 7.8%, the lowest rate since the president took office, first time below 8%. joining me for the daily fix, chris cizilla, msnbc contributor and managing editor of post-politics.com. the president out on the stump trying to make the best of it, these numbers can bounce around. we'll drill down on the economic facts and figures in a moment, but basically t
. >> fresh from his successful debate performance, mitt romney tries to clean up his 47% blunder. >> now and then you're going to say something that doesn't come out right and in this case i said something that's just completely wrong and i absolutely believe, however, that my life has shown that i care about 100%. >> plus, late night's take on the mile-high debate. >> there is no red america, there is no blue america, there is only the america that can't believe how bad this guy did in the debate. romney won with the sound off. dude, he's yelling at you, look up! look up! what are you looking at, writing that's so important -- oh, that's nice. i didn't realize. that is impressive work. >> good day. i'm andrea mitchell live in washington. >> romney will come across as empathetic. but here's what mitt's been promising for the last two years. tax cuts for the wealthiest americans. how do you make that seem warm and fuzzy? well you just need to shake it up as hard as mitt did last night. so, let's give it a shot. okay. here we go. >> a little magic there. good day. i'm andrea mitchell live
're done. >> bret: survey says, round one goes to romney. how both sides say he won the debate. how the president lost and where we go from here. this is "special report". good evening. i'm bret baier. mitt romney is hoping to take the ball and run with it after what was by most accounts a winning performance in the first of three debates with president obama. governor romney running mate, paul ryan, will be at a rally in virginia in a few minutes. the candidates are spreading out to some of the most hotly contested battle grounds after romney's gather not guilty virginia, he will move on to florida tomorrow. president obama had an event in denver, then in wisconsin today and goes on to virginia and ohio friday. we have fox team coverage tonight. jim angle has a fact check on last night's most heated issue, tax policy. ed henry has the obama campaign reaction. and we begin with carl cameron on the first debate. good evening, carl. >> hi, brett. the romney campaign could hardly be more excited about what happened last night. in fact, since the debate ended, they say they've been gett
now, we're counting down to tonight's presidential debate. mitt romney's motorcade just pulled up at the debate hall. president obama's expected to arrive in denver any minute as well. we'll be talking with top supporters of each candidate. the former new york city mayor rudy giuliani, he'll join us live this hour. also we'll be hearing from both candidates' wives in special cnn interviews. today, by the way, is the obama's 20th wedding anniversary. so what's it like spending the night with the romneys? i'm wolf blitzer, you're in "the situation room." >>> 34 days from the presidential election but much more importantly right now at least right now we've reached what may be the most decisive night of the 2012 campaign, the first presidential debate at the university of denver. after weeks of downplaying expectations, mitt romney's campaign insiders are finally opening up about what they really think can be accomplished tonight. cnn's national political correspondent jim acosta is in denver getting ready to set the scene. jim. >> reporter: wolf, the romney campaign sees the polls m
colorado. can a solid performance at the denver debate help mitt romney change the perceptions and boost his poll numbers? >>> and the expectations game isn't slowing down one bit. both sides say the other side was one of the most gifted debate performers in the history of mankind. so if they're both right, then this should be a heck of a night on wednesday, shouldn't they? lincoln douglas, watch out. >>> plus at the brink, a special nbc news report from all across the middle east, afghanistan, iran, syria, as multiple situations grow more dangerous da, what challenges face this president and whoever takes office in january? >>> good morning from washington. it's monday, october 1st, 2012. this is the daily rundown. i'm chuck todd. one more rundown. let's get to the rundown. mitt romney need as great october to change the course of this campaign. for your him it had to begin wednesday night in denver. romney had just a rough three weeks. he's had a rough three months. you could argue that romney hasn't, quote, won a month in this campaign since may or june. a trailing campaign has just a
romney as a souvenir of the night he crushed you in that debate. >> my gosh. okay. >> so that's what he's doing. because i'm sitting there going, what's he doing? >> good morning, everyone. >> it makes more sense. it fills in the blank. >> that gives us proper context. >> it is friday. it is friday, thank god. i need two days away from all of you people. october 5th. >> mika, hold on. >> no, stop. >> you need a couple of days away from politics. >> no, i don't. >> mika, all day yesterday -- >> what you say off tv sometimes stays off tv. >> i'm not going to repeat what you said. i've never seen her so depressed. she sort of wandered around. >> it was just one day. >> i swear to god, she was wandering around getting lost in crowds. >> no, that's just how i walk. >> i swear to god, she'd go, "he might win." >> no, i did not do that. now you're making up stuff. i do get lost in crowds, but that's because i have no sense of direction and i'm on my iphone. okay. >> chosen one may not be chosen this time. >> no. >> and it's freaking her out. >> it was a bad night. i will say this, i don't know
did in the debate! obama lost despite mitt romney doing this. >> i'm sorry, jim, i'm going to stop the subsidy to pbs, i'm going to stop other things. i like pbs. i like big bird. i actually like you, too. i'm not going to spend money on things to borrow money from china to pay for it. >> he [ bleep ] fired big bird! he still won walking away. romney won with the sound up. >> you're entitled to your own airplane and your own house but not to your own facts. >> romney won with the sound off. dude, he's yelling at you! look up! look up! what are you looking at? what are you writing that's so important? what are you doing -- oh, that's not -- oh, i didn't realize. that is impressive work. i didn't realize that. maybe you could give that to mitt romney as a souvenir of the night he crushed you in that debate. >> my gosh. okay. >> so that's what he's doing. because i'm sitting there going, what's he doing? >> good morning, everyone. >> it makes more sense. it fills in the blank. >> that gives us proper context. >> it is friday. it is friday, thank god. i need two days away from all of y
. >>> the romney camp says they plan to win the debate with zingers. >> i would be tempted to go back to that wonderful by ronald reagan, there you go again. >> how much you want to bet, it doesn't work? >> $10,000 bet? >>> on the eve of election day in ohio, they are sleeping overnight at polling places. we'll go live to cleveland where nina turner is camping out for early voting. >>> and house majority leader eric cantor is fighting for his political life in his own district. wayne powell will join me live following tonight's big debate. >>> good evening, americans. good to have you with us. republicans are hoping for a game changer in the next few days, but romney's path to victory is starting to disappear. president obama is ahead in all of the vital swing states needed for victory. if the election were held today an associated press analysis shows president obama would win at least 271 electoral votes. 270 votes wins the presidency. the romney campaign, no doubt, is struggling to, say the least. romney's own running mate was forced to admit how their campaign has stumbled. >> so,
in tomorrow's debate, mitt romney or president obama. could the unemployment rate be the october surprise that shakes things up in the election? and imagine flying the plane and your seat comes loose. it happened twice. we'll get right to it. we're 32 hours away from the first presidential debate. president obama and mitt romney taking the stage at the university of denver in colorado. a live picture. this inside that will. where the two men will face off for the first time. lost at stake for both candidates. according to our latest poll which is an average of five national polls it is tight race among likely voters the president has 49%, mitt romney at 46%. now both men in past moments wished they could have a do over. we recall a heated exchange between hillary clinton and president obama back in 2008's debate in south carolina. >> while i was working on those streets watching those folks see their jobs shipped overseas you were a corporate lawyer sitting on the board of walmart. i was fighting these fights. i was fighting these fights. knives fighting against those ideas when you were
. snoou. >>> mitt romney has been preparing for the debate by debating a republican senator, who's playing the part of president obama. yeah. meanwhile, president obama has been preparing for romney by debating an atm machine. ally bank. why they're always there to talk. i love you, james. don't you love me? i'm a robot. i know. i know you're a robot! but there's more in you than just circuits and wires! uhhh. (cries) a machine can't give you what a person can. that's why ally has knowledgeable people there for you, night and day. ally bank. your money needs an ally. >>> have you checked us out on facebook? the "politicsnation" nation conversation is going around the clock. today our facebook family cheered the voter i.d. decision in pennsylvania. anthony says, it's the best political news he's heard this season. and patricia says, i live in pennsylvania and this november i'm voting against anyone in the state that voted for the i.d. law. this photo of romney's getting lunch at chipotle in colorado was the other big hit of the day. heidi says, romney definitely looks out of his element. an
putting a high importance on the debates which actually kind of shows the challenge that mitt romney has to actually get his side as enthusiastic about it. >> a shrinking group of undecided voters, chris cizilla, what is the strategy of both sides to reach those people who are still undecided? >> you saw the clip you played with mitt romney in colorado, president obama on sunday night in las vegas, both basically what they both said is the media wants this to be a back and forth brawl, we're going to be serious and focus on the issues because they understand that when it comes to undecided voters, tend to be people, not always, politically independent. those kind of people don't like the nastiness, the back and forth. partisans love that. but independents don't like it. the messaging is i'm a serious person, these are serious times, and we need someone who has the ability, capacity, demonstrated record to lead. so i actually think both of them will be kind of the serious and sober politician as opposed to you showed the clip of scott brown and elizabeth warren, i don't think that's what'
Search Results 0 to 49 of about 259 (some duplicates have been removed)